The Mom Guilt Battle

In this episode, we discuss the pervasive issue of mom guilt, particularly in the context of running and personal pursuits. We share personal experiences and insights on how to navigate feelings of guilt, the importance of communication with partners, and the need for self-care. This discussion emphasizes the significance of breaking generational cycles of self-sacrifice and the necessity of recognizing one's own needs as a mother. The conversation concludes with positive affirmations and reminders that mothers deserve time for themselves.

Takeaways

• Mom guilt is a common experience.
• It's important to thrive in motherhood, not just survive.
• Running can provide a sense of identity outside of motherhood.
• Communication with partners is crucial to managing guilt.
• Mothers often feel societal pressure to be selfless.
• Self-care is essential for overall well-being.
• Breaking generational cycles of self-sacrifice is important.
• Mothers should recognize their own needs and passions.
• Positive affirmations can help combat feelings of guilt.
• Creating a supportive environment can alleviate guilt.
• Mom Guilt: A Shared Experience
• Self-Care for Moms: Filling Your Cup

Sound Bites

• "Mom guilt is a huge topic for mothers."
• "We want to thrive, not just survive motherhood."
• "It's okay to need your cup filled by something else."

Chapters

04:25
Personal Experiences with Mom Guilt

07:30
The Impact of Running on Motherhood

10:22
Navigating Spousal Guilt

13:26
The Role of Communication in Relationships

16:15
The Pressure of Societal Expectations

19:21
Finding Balance in Motherhood

22:22
Breaking Generational Cycles

25:29
The Importance of Self-Care

About your hosts:

• Whitney Heins is a mom of 2 kids, a VDOT-certified running coach for moms who run, and founder of the resource, themotherrunners.com. Coming out of a 5-year injury cycle which included a 2:54 marathon and 1:20 half marathon, she is training to run faster as a master’s athlete. IG: @themotherrunners.
• Shanna Birchett is a mom of 6 kids under 8, including twins. She returned to running in 2021 after an 11-year break, running most recently a 2:44 marathon in the summer of 2024. She is the co-founder of Endure 365 running, endure365.com, which offers heart rate-based training plans. IG: @motherhood_running.
• Tricia DeNardis is a mom to 3 young kids and a physical therapist specializing in the pelvic floor, pregnancy and postpartum rehabilitation. After running 10 marathons, Tricia completed her first 50k in the fall of 2024, and is now hooked! IG: @burpeesandburpcloths.
• Olivia Garcia is a mom of 2 young kids, who used to work as a paramedic. She fell in love with running in 2019, despite surviving a marathon that didn’t go according to plan. She’s since cut more than an hour off her marathon time and gunning to break 3 hours. IG: ...

Transcript

Whitney Heins (00:01.144)

Hello and thank you for joining us for episode one and we're gonna get into a very important meaty topic of mom guilt which Yeah, it's honestly it was like a big motivator for me Starting the mother runner. So I'm Whitney Hines. I am a certified running coach. I Founded the website the mother runners calm. I have two kids

and I live and a husband and two dogs and I live in Knoxville, Tennessee.

Whitney Heins (00:35.594)

Olivia wait Olivia. Yeah, do you want to tell us about yourself? So you'll really want to introduce ourselves So, you know because there's four voices on this podcast. So I'm Whitney. This is Olivia

Olivia Garcia (00:35.992)

I'll go next. Yes. I'm Olivia, the one who keeps pausing forever. I live in Utah. I have my two kids that I stay at home to raise. I also have a dog and a husband here. And yeah, I am.

Whitney Heins (00:59.788)

Yeah.

Olivia Garcia (01:04.408)

I just started my running journey about five years ago, so everything has just been learning little steps along the way. yeah, I'm excited to talk about this topic. I think that this one, think we widely cover as mothers in general, but especially as mother runners. And the reason that it falls into this running category is because running does take up quite a bit of our time, especially when we're training for these long distances.

Yeah, I'm kind of excited to dive into this and kind of how we deal with it, where it pops up and like a couple things of how to maybe overcome it too. Yeah.

Whitney Heins (01:41.922)

Yeah, yeah, me too. Trisha, what about you?

Tricia (01:45.442)

Yeah, so I'm Tricia. I'm a mom of three. I'm a physical therapist, prenatal postpartum coach, and exercise specialist. And yeah, I can't wait to dive into this because I feel like it's something that no matter how hard you work on and rationalize why you shouldn't feel it, all of us have it at one point or the other. And if we don't have it, then someone else on the internet will make us have it. So.

Shanna Birchett (02:08.597)

Ha ha!

Olivia Garcia (02:09.926)

Such a good point! Yeah.

Whitney Heins (02:11.639)

Such a good point.

Shanna Birchett (02:14.953)

Hi, I'm Shanna Burschette. I also live in Utah. I do not like to claim it as my state though. I grew up in California. So I don't know if I want to claim that either, cause they hate both of us. So I am a mom to six kids. I feel like I need like a special title. So I guess like I'm a professional butt wiper. don't, I feel like I need something on like my resume on here, but yeah, my oldest is...

Whitney Heins (02:23.547)

California girl.

Olivia Garcia (02:23.672)

Well, I don't claim it either I just live here

Tricia (02:28.715)

I'm

Tricia (02:37.506)

Yes!

you

Whitney Heins (02:42.328)

you

Olivia Garcia (02:42.473)

No!

Shanna Birchett (02:44.247)

eight and my youngest is two and so we're still in the diaper phase unfortunately but we are slowly getting out of it but i'm super excited yeah that must be it when she's wiping her own i'm just kidding

Whitney Heins (02:52.408)

Can I just say that I think about you all the time? No, that sounds so weird.

Tricia (02:56.704)

When your wife is in bus or what?

Whitney Heins (03:02.56)

she's right now whenever I'm doing like a little thing for the like the the lunches or making the meals or laundry, dishwasher, school forums, like all that stuff in my mind I'm always like Shanna has to do this three times the amount that I'm doing it like it's just like all those little things like they coalesce into taking up so much time.

Olivia Garcia (03:03.857)

Shanna Birchett (03:09.231)

Thank

Shanna Birchett (03:20.787)

It's so wild, though.

Olivia Garcia (03:21.633)

time too.

Whitney Heins (03:26.445)

And but I'm like always thinking I'm like this is taking up so much time and it's stupid. It shouldn't be taken. Then I'm like Shanna has to do this like three times. So sorry. I just had to say that.

Shanna Birchett (03:26.571)

Yeah.

Olivia Garcia (03:32.076)

Hmm.

Shanna Birchett (03:34.527)

No, it's wild because to me I'm like motherhood is busy. Like regardless of how many children you have and I see this to so many people like they're like, how do you do it six? I'm like, how do you do it with three or two with a husband gone all the time? Like that is harder. Like, and so I, you know, we all have our own hard, yeah, I mean, I feel like the mom guilt is the perfect topic to start this whole podcast off of because we are all.

all of us here are mothers. We are pursuing our own businesses or our own outside goals or whatever outside of our family. And that takes a lot of guilt to overcome. Honestly. I know personally for me, getting back into running a 2022, that was my biggest hiccup. The whole first year, honestly, I feel like it's gotten better as time has gone on. We've gotten into a habit, but that first year every, would

come home crying. Like I would have middle of the day, midday crying sessions in my car as I'm picking my kids up in the pickup line. And I'm just like, what am I doing to my family? What am I doing to my kids? What am I doing to myself? Like, this is crazy. And so I'm excited to dive into this. I feel like this is going to be a great topic that so many of us resonate with.

Whitney Heins (04:51.032)

So I want to ask you, Shanna, you have a very popular Instagram account. people see you, your mom of six, people see you succeeding as a runner. Do you get pushback from people who are like, who's watching your kids? And how much time are you taking to run? Because I know the rest of us probably get that too.

Shanna Birchett (05:07.785)

Yeah.

Shanna Birchett (05:17.143)

Yeah, I know we've all probably had those comments given to us. Absolutely. It's wild some of the comments I read. It's like, who's watching the kids? And I'm like, there's two parents under this roof. What are you talking about? And we get the comments like, wow, that's a lot of time to spend on yourself. And that's so crazy to me because I...

Whitney Heins (05:29.688)

Ha!

Whitney Heins (05:37.418)

my gosh.

Olivia Garcia (05:42.328)

you

Shanna Birchett (05:42.549)

I would feel like any type of health in general is a good thing to invest in. We have one body. We have literally one body that's going to raise those children the rest of their lives. And we're here to live too. We're not just here to survive. And I think that was my biggest shift in my motherhood was realizing motherhood was not meant to be survived. It was meant to thrive. It was meant to live. And...

bringing running back into the picture of that to have something for myself was truly a blessing. It flipped the motherhood script for me and made me realize like, just because I was given all these children, it doesn't mean that God was saying, hey, let's put all your things on hold, all your personal things on hold, but hey, let's bring them together. Let's mesh them. Like let's make this a family unit, a family thing. You cheer them on, they cheer you on. Like that's the whole point, you

But yeah, it's unfortunate that we get those comments and I know each and every one of us here are gonna have to share some of these ridiculous comments that we've heard.

Whitney Heins (06:46.552)

just love the way that you said that. Yeah, we're not trying to survive motherhood. We want to thrive. That's so true. And we have one body. exercise, study after study shows that exercise is the one thing you can do to optimize all aspects of your health. And so why wouldn't we want to be healthy in our best selves for our kids?

Olivia Garcia (07:00.588)

you

Whitney Heins (07:09.662)

and like showing them too, like that it's great to go after those big goals and, but it's hard. mean, that guilt is, it's always there. That voice is always talking.

Olivia Garcia (07:24.918)

crazy how I think of, so when I was pregnant with my son, my husband and I, made an agreement that, because he was getting really into pickleball at the time. Pickleball takes up two hours, pretty much on the dot, which is great, but that's a long time. And so I knew I was going to be having this baby and that he was getting into this new sport and all these things. And so right off the bat, before I had the baby, we were like, we'll each give each other two hours a day, which is

a really generous amount of time, think. you know, because I'm not going on two hour runs every day. And so I started, I went out for my first run after having my baby and I was feeling so guilty. And I just remember I was like, this is crazy. And I always felt guilty for being gone. And it was unnecessary and so like,

Shanna Birchett (07:56.247)

That's awesome.

Olivia Garcia (08:16.098)

I would lock in on that and it helped with my running quite a bit because I can lock in on this thought of like, why was I feeling so guilty for being gone? So I started switching it to the treadmill and only doing it during his nap time. And so then I became this nap time runner. Even if my husband was home, then I could go tend to the baby. It was like getting a little bit out of control. So once I was able to just step back outside of the house and relinquish some control because I had left a job. I loved being a paramedic. I absolutely loved it.

but I just couldn't fathom being away from my son for so long. And so when I quit working, I felt like I had to give everything to my son. I had to be his everything. Nobody else took care of him. Like it was me. Really? And it was like, I felt like because now I'm a stay at home mom and also professional butt wiper or domestic engineer. How about that one? Yeah. That's what my husband calls me and I'm like, thank you. And

Whitney Heins (08:55.362)

Mm-hmm.

I did the

Shanna Birchett (08:59.763)

Yeah.

Shanna Birchett (09:07.447)

domestic engineer

Whitney Heins (09:09.098)

Yes.

Shanna Birchett (09:12.919)

That's awesome. Should have thought about that one.

Tricia (09:13.452)

You

Whitney Heins (09:13.536)

You

Olivia Garcia (09:15.362)

But I heard this like, bye-bye word. It's the same. It's just worded nicely. Yeah, honestly same. But I think that I just took on this role because I felt so guilty just all the time for all of it. I was loving being at home with my son. And so then when I did step away, I felt so bad. And then it bled into right when I had my daughter too is I had signed up for Chicago.

Tricia (09:18.05)

like that.

Shanna Birchett (09:20.446)

janitor of the family.

Olivia Garcia (09:44.778)

in the lottery and I got in and I was so excited and I started training and then I realized Chicago was going to be when I was six months postpartum and I was just not, and she didn't take a bottle at all. And so I would have, we didn't have a really, and so like it's, was so crazy. I would go out for these runs and my husband would bring my daughter, the baby to me, which was wild to think about now, but like that was just how it was. She just never took a bottle. And so there was no game plan for the marriage.

Whitney Heins (09:56.78)

Same! Yes!

Shanna Birchett (09:58.207)

Yeah.

so hard.

Olivia Garcia (10:14.88)

supposed to come to the hotel and then she was like, if she screams, you'll be back in what four hours. And I was like, I don't know. And so I was doing all this marathon training and then I didn't end up running the marathon I deferred. And like, I still think about all that time I spent away from my daughter and like, she is a Velcro baby still she loves her mom, like it didn't traumatize her. But for some reason, I think of it nonstop. And I was allowed to have that time. And so sometimes I think about like,

Shanna Birchett (10:22.551)

See you.

Olivia Garcia (10:45.312)

this two hour window that my husband and I gave each other, like two hours is nothing compared to the whole rest of the day, right? Like we have all these moments we can share with them. Like studies show if you just spend 15 minutes with your child one-on-one that they'll benefit from that. And here I was feeling so guilty for stepping away for doing something for myself. And I still do all the time, even with it being in their narrative of like, mommy's going to go for a run, you know? And like they love when I run on the treadmill. They think it's the greatest thing.

And for some reason, I still feel guilty about doing it. It's completely inevitable. I don't know. It's like how we're wired.

Whitney Heins (11:22.648)

It's I totally am I your story mirrors mine so much and yeah, my daughter my neither one of my kids took the bottle but my daughter like I worked for the first year of her life and the people the daycare were like we've never seen anything like it like she will starve herself and wait for you like no we have like professionals come over to try to get she's a redhead. So you know, she's feisty. But yeah, she just what like I mean.

Shanna Birchett (11:28.311)

It's so crazy.

Olivia Garcia (11:29.336)

That's crazy.

Olivia Garcia (11:43.744)

Yes. Yeah.

Shanna Birchett (11:49.313)

So cute.

Whitney Heins (11:52.44)

Yeah, so I felt and like she would wake up from her, I would go during nap time, she would wake up from her nap like ballistic and my husband, like every time my husband would call me, like you gotta come back, she's hyperventilating, you gotta come back. I'm like, my God. And I already felt so guilty and then that is like every run was just completely riddled with anxiety of like, what's gonna happen? Is she gonna wake up? And so yeah, and then that's kind of morphed now, like my kids are fine. My kids are 10 and seven and they know that.

Olivia Garcia (11:54.402)

Mm-hmm.

Olivia Garcia (12:04.49)

Mm-hmm.

Whitney Heins (12:20.512)

Mommy's a runner and they're all about it. But now it's it's like kind of wife guilt of like, well, I want you to have your time too. Cause I really need this time to do my thing. And so like, if you're not taking your time, cause I don't care what you do, if you're not taking your time, like then I feel bad asking for my time or I always feel bad no matter what, inconveniencing other people.

Shanna Birchett (12:27.594)

Yeah.

Shanna Birchett (12:33.629)

Yes.

Olivia Garcia (12:35.368)

Yeah.

Whitney Heins (12:47.544)

you know, and it's like, it's hard to find that window even early in the morning, because like somebody is going to wake up to not inconvenience. And then even if I do, then it's like, then I'm tired. And then I'm kind of cranky. And then, you know, and it's just like hard to find like the perfect window. I don't know. And then I feel like society is just like, with moms are supposed to be like completely selfless. So if they do anything for themselves, and

Shanna Birchett (13:10.933)

Yes.

Whitney Heins (13:12.532)

it's bad and it's wrong and it's taking away from your kids when really it's like, just because you're depositing into your bank doesn't mean that you're taking that like money out from their banks, you know, like in fact, it's quite the opposite.

Tricia (13:28.546)

Yeah, and I feel like it does, like it ebbs and flows depending on where you are and how old your kids are. Because I feel like I went from a point where, and I still do get up at ridiculously early hours of the day, so I don't impact my kids as much. know, inevitably somebody is up early. But no matter.

Whitney Heins (13:48.322)

Right. And you just fold them into the workout so beautifully. We see it on your Instagram.

Olivia Garcia (13:48.846)

Yeah.

Tricia (13:53.314)

And that took a while to figure out like I can either fight this or and resist it or I can just rope them in and make them work out with me. And now like Olivia and I somebody had said earlier it's like once they see that consistently then it just becomes part of their life and they don't even question it. It's like mom's running, mom's sweating again. Like this is just this is normal. And then they like

Shanna Birchett (13:56.343)

So crazy.

Olivia Garcia (14:02.712)

Yeah

Whitney Heins (14:02.84)

Ehh

Shanna Birchett (14:17.291)

Yeah.

Tricia (14:22.762)

My kids will always like be racing each other or like trying to out push up one another. It's like, you see how that just folds forward. But yeah, I think that like spousal guilt is huge too. And I feel like that's a big thing that I have dealt with for sure. And it's very important. feel like Olivia, that's amazing that you two have agreed like, hey, you get your two hours, I get mine.

Whitney Heins (14:48.982)

Yes, I wish I would have done that earlier.

Olivia Garcia (14:51.34)

Yeah.

Tricia (14:52.244)

Yeah, I think that that is key because if you don't have that agreement, then there will inevitably be some, you know, some feelings that are had about that. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. And if it's not fair to either spouse really because

Shanna Birchett (14:52.981)

Alright, smart approach.

Olivia Garcia (14:57.592)

Yes. Yes. Resentment. Yes.

Shanna Birchett (15:06.263)

What are you alluding to?

Whitney Heins (15:09.516)

feeling is resentment right you don't resentment would be huge yes

Shanna Birchett (15:13.92)

that meant.

Tricia (15:20.864)

If you're giving the other one shit for taking the time that they really need for themselves, then it makes it so much less enjoyable. Right?

Olivia Garcia (15:28.12)

my gosh, exactly. With the two hour thing, like as it sounds like a perfect system, it's kind of just like something that we can use like, well, hey, we did agree to this because obviously like all of my, don't go for two hour runs. And if I was to go for an hour long run and then sit on the curb, like,

Whitney Heins (15:29.012)

It does, it does. Yeah, it's like, because then you don't know what it's what you're walking into once you get back.

Tricia (15:35.135)

Right, yeah.

Shanna Birchett (15:35.755)

Yeah.

Whitney Heins (15:49.058)

Olivia Garcia (15:57.176)

I would definitely hear about it. would never be like, why weren't you, you know, like, and all of my runs, to be honest is, and I tell Shanna about this all the time is I have to be back pretty much on the dot so that my husband can leave and actually have his two hours because he plays pickleball or if he's golfing, like that all relies on other people where my running isn't necessarily unless I have a planned run that I schedule like five days in advance, like, Hey, just remember.

Shanna Birchett (16:18.572)

Yeah.

Whitney Heins (16:19.106)

Right.

Olivia Garcia (16:25.88)

Saturday I'm running for two and a half hours you know and so with that I have to remember like that I can't have this much I can't resent that he gets to go and do this all the time because to him it's like hey I'm gonna go play you know 6 a.m. tomorrow and it's like I would have loved to run at 6 a.m. like was I even a consideration there but he's like well can you go run on the treadmill at 5 because he knows that I would only have 60 minutes to run

Whitney Heins (16:45.484)

Hmm.

Olivia Garcia (16:52.908)

So there's always like these little things that you have to figure out and because resentment, it will just slip in so fast. And especially when your partner has a hobby or if he doesn't, then that's where the guilt comes in. Cause you're like excited and loving things and you like having all these like big goals and you're like pumped about it you want to talk about it all the time, right? Like, and like being excited about something. And then when they don't have that it's

Shanna Birchett (17:06.239)

Yeah.

Whitney Heins (17:06.71)

Mm-hmm.

Whitney Heins (17:14.794)

Mm-hmm.

Tricia (17:16.012)

Great.

Shanna Birchett (17:16.279)

you

Olivia Garcia (17:21.816)

great it is so crazy to because you're like like me I'm like hey do you want to run a 5k you know and now he's trading for a 5k which is awesome but it was like literally this thing I had to like because otherwise it's just me talking about marathons absolutely non-stop you know and

Tricia (17:39.074)

Sure.

Whitney Heins (17:39.288)

See, but the antidote is listening to us talk or having mother runner friends who feel the same way. And then you can just talk about like, yeah, it does actually in studies do show that like talk, like surrounding yourself with other women, like like-minded women, it does really help with the bomb field. But I think like your point like about the communication is so it's so important, but it's still so hard because it's like, how do I word this so that it doesn't?

Shanna Birchett (17:42.289)

Yes, I was just about to say that.

Olivia Garcia (17:43.224)

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Olivia Garcia (17:59.095)

Because

Shanna Birchett (18:01.824)

Yeah.

Whitney Heins (18:08.202)

trigger that reaction that I know it's going to trigger.

Olivia Garcia (18:10.09)

Yeah, which is so odd as the primary caretaker of your children that you're asking permission to take time to yourself because it's not like we're asking to go get massages every single day for an hour, which would be amazing. I know it's my massage hour. You know, it's weird that we feel like we have to ask for permission to just go do something that we love.

Whitney Heins (18:24.438)

That would be amazing. Let's normalize that.

Olivia Garcia (18:37.526)

You know, and that we could put that we could potentially pass on this passion to our kids, right? Like, and it's so strange to ever hear like, well, I don't know if body blah would let me do that. And it's like, you have to let yourself go do it. that's like, I'm going to go run at 6am. Here yet. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Tricia (18:57.622)

Yeah, not a question. I'm a grown-ass woman and this is what I'm doing. Yes, respectfully so.

Shanna Birchett (18:59.474)

Yeah.

Olivia Garcia (19:02.474)

Yes, exactly. Respectfully.

Shanna Birchett (19:02.591)

Yeah.

Whitney Heins (19:02.956)

feel like two tools. Yeah, yes. I'm a grown ass woman. Like I'm an adult. I don't need to ask your permission.

Tricia (19:09.334)

Maybe.

Shanna Birchett (19:09.597)

That's respectful!

Olivia Garcia (19:11.606)

Yeah!

Whitney Heins (19:13.368)

telling you what I'm doing. I have said like, well, I did listen to the book of boundaries, which I think could be helpful if like this is hard, like, this is what I'm doing. And then it tells you like, like, green, yellow and red of like, how to how willing are you to make a compromise if you're if you want to run at 6am.

Tricia (19:15.424)

Yes!

Shanna Birchett (19:36.887)

Cool, that's awesome.

Whitney Heins (19:39.416)

but your partner wants to go play pickleball, then it's like, okay, then what are you okay with? Like, okay, are you okay running on the treadmill at 5 a.m.? Are you okay with changing your long run to the next? Like, I don't know, it's a pretty good, and then if like, if you do really struggle with communication and it like just blowing up every time, then it's like, okay, I think talking to a therapist, a couples therapist would be worthwhile. And I know, sorry, this is kind of like more.

from like mom, because the mom guilt makes you feel guilty every time you go out the door, but it also like makes you feel guilty that somebody else is having to watch your kids. And it's like.

Tricia (20:16.566)

Right. And that's what I feel like all of us have gotten that at some point on social media where you're putting that you're out, that you're going out running in the dark and people are like, well, where are your kids? Who's watching your kids? Like thinking, okay, well, you know, most of the time there is another adult that is fully capable. They're capable enough to bring them into this world. You sure hope they can watch them for an hour.

Shanna Birchett (20:17.665)

Get it? Yeah.

Shanna Birchett (20:28.947)

Yeah.

Olivia Garcia (20:40.408)

Right.

Tricia (20:43.03)

But so then that guilt is thrown on you just from people you don't even know. Like, how dare you try to, you know, we're already sacrificing our sleep to get in the things that we love to do and run. Like, why do we need this extra guilt of taking care of ourselves, you know, from them? Yeah.

Olivia Garcia (20:47.554)

Hmm?

Shanna Birchett (21:00.033)

Can I chime in? I feel like sometimes we can put the guilt on ourselves too that isn't actually there. mean, Trisha, I think your situation is far different. So I wanna be very cautious. Like I understand that there's really good communication and the other partner just won't hear it, right? And unfortunately, you have to figure out what's best for you at that point. With even therapy and all that stuff, sometimes things are just unresolved.

Tricia (21:05.568)

Right.

Whitney Heins (21:07.467)

Yes.

Tricia (21:28.352)

Exactly.

Shanna Birchett (21:28.631)

And I mean, two people have to want to, like you said, Whitney, want to compromise and stuff like that. But I feel like for me, because I grew up with a mom with a dad who was deployed so often and she literally did everything. Like she did everything. She was, she took us camping by herself, like every road trip, every, she is amazing. And you know, everything that she has done.

Whitney Heins (21:48.216)

We need to have her on by the way. Can we talk? She sounds amazing.

Shanna Birchett (21:54.175)

has always been a solo mom. And so I grew up with that go-getter, like, I don't want to say feminism, but like that really like independent woman vibe and mentality. Like that's the type of mom I'm gonna, and I really truly am for the most part. Like I will take all six kids to the park or the splash pad for hours. Even my husband was working at home. Like I'm just, that's what I'm used to. And that doesn't faze me, but I feel like I put this unnecessary guilt on myself that my husband doesn't necessarily like feel.

Whitney Heins (22:00.824)

you

Shanna Birchett (22:24.093)

And I will in my head will create it into this situation where it's he's like, I didn't even, I don't feel bad. Like I don't care if you go for your long run on Saturday, like that doesn't bother me. And I'm like, wait, wait, wait, you know, I thought it did, you know, cause I felt like I was taking so much time for myself when it really wasn't. But I feel like as moms, like you said, Whitney, we just expect ourselves to do everything. And I'm realizing the more and more like a healthy marriage and a healthy relationship.

is relying on your spouse and being vulnerable and being okay to rely on your spouse. And that's something that I've struggled with as a mom is relying on my spouse. Like he goes and picks up my kids from school and I'm like, my gosh, I'm not doing everything. So I'm failing as a mom. And I'm like, no, they need that relationship with him too. He needs to hear the finding on the way home too. Like it's good for them to have that memories with him. And yeah, so I think sometimes like for me, the mom guilt is a

Whitney Heins (23:07.67)

Mm-hmm.

Shanna Birchett (23:23.645)

is a thing in my head that I sometimes make worse than it actually is in reality. I, that's something that I have to work on is like being, being okay with myself having that time, even with a supportive spouse.

Tricia (23:40.183)

Yeah.

Whitney Heins (23:40.404)

There are like three things you said that resonated with me, especially like one, like there have been many times where I'm like, I feel guilty about this. And my husband has been like, what are you talking about? Like, it's totally fine. not even on my radar. And like, yeah, it is important for them to like your kids and their dad to like have that relationship and have that time and like.

Shanna Birchett (23:50.506)

Yeah.

Whitney Heins (24:07.254)

for you not to always be there, you know? And then I think also, we as moms, we put so much pressure on ourselves. We have so much on our plate. But then also, I think as runners too, we tend to be perfectionists. And so we're like, we have to have control over everything. And we have to be badass at everything we do. And it's like, no, it's OK if somebody else is making breakfast in the morning. like, you know, yeah.

Shanna Birchett (24:20.523)

Yeah.

Shanna Birchett (24:26.847)

Hahaha.

Olivia Garcia (24:33.304)

Yes.

Tricia (24:36.194)

And even for our kids too, it's like, it's good for them to have that separation from us from time to time. And like one of you said before, it's like, they're like, yes, I can watch TV or I could do what I want. And my mom's not telling me what to do for an hour. It's like, forget that, hey, maybe sometimes they don't want to be with us 24 seven.

Shanna Birchett (24:41.815)

you

Shanna Birchett (24:48.375)

You

It's true.

Shanna Birchett (24:56.639)

Especially when they start entering that pre-teen stage, right? Yeah.

Olivia Garcia (24:57.769)

Yes! Yeah.

Olivia Garcia (25:02.294)

Yeah.

Tricia (25:02.7)

Right. Yeah. We're not cool anyway. And one thing I heard like kind of to cap on Shannon, what you had said is like a phrase that I heard once was, you know, life and your goals don't end when motherhood begins. And so even though we have this pressure, whether from society or that we put on ourselves, we have to also recognize that we're still a person. Just because we become a mom doesn't mean that.

Whitney Heins (25:02.945)

Yeah.

Olivia Garcia (25:06.872)

Yes.

Whitney Heins (25:17.887)

Mm-hmm.

Olivia Garcia (25:18.764)

Yeah.

Tricia (25:30.412)

We have to give everything up. mean, we still have our passions and goals and there's nothing wrong with that.

Shanna Birchett (25:38.603)

Yeah, totally.

Olivia Garcia (25:39.66)

That's probably one of the most important things to recognize is that we are still people like our spouses when we became moms, like they did not lose their identity for the most part, you know, they're still the same person and they don't feel defined by parenthood. Like they're excited to be dads, you know, but they're not defined by this. Like, like I said, with my baby, like I was, I needed to just like everything. Like if I miss him even getting a bottle, I was like,

Tricia (25:53.036)

Great.

Shanna Birchett (25:54.551)

True.

Olivia Garcia (26:09.516)

Well, who gave it to him? Who made it? Like, how long did you heat it up for? And, you know, I was obsessed and it actually, wasn't like I was concerned about how much he was eating. I just wanted to know who did it. Like it was just like an obsession and it was because I felt so bad that someone else was going to feed him. I felt so bad that I wasn't going to be the one that, you know, was providing for him in that moment, which is so silly to look back on because now there's a thousand meals a day that I provide for him.

Whitney Heins (26:12.694)

Hahaha!

Olivia Garcia (26:38.902)

You know, we have like four breakfasts by 10 o'clock. so, you know, it is just like this, it's this guilt that we place on ourselves. And I have that talk with my husband all the time where I'm like, are you okay with me going out for two hours? And he's like, yes, I am very much fine with it. Cause he also probably wants to have one-on-one time with our kids where it's not like me being like, Hey, you should go out and play in the sandbox, you know? And not that I'm that bossy all the time, but I love throwing out suggestions. So it's.

Whitney Heins (26:41.688)

Here we are.

Tricia (26:41.704)

Yeah.

Shanna Birchett (26:54.089)

Hahaha

Olivia Garcia (27:08.724)

It is just like this thing that we, this pressure that we put on ourselves and it's just not necessary, you know, because we are people, we're allowed to take time to ourselves and like we're allowed to continue our passions. and we're allowed to try new hobbies. Like it's not like, because you know, I'm a mom now, I'm not allowed to go try this new class. Like, of course we're allowed to do that. That would be such a silly thing.

I don't know, it's so strange sometimes to look back on certain times too when I've had guilt about something and it wasn't placed upon me, it was just something that I had internally. And I still feel it all the time even when I know that I don't really need to.

Shanna Birchett (27:49.473)

Yeah.

Whitney Heins (27:55.48)

Yeah, and I think if you talk to a lot of older women who are now empty nesters, like I've had on my page, have the why I run, which runs on Wednesdays, and women share the reasons why they run. the older women,

Olivia Garcia (28:10.859)

Mm-hmm.

Whitney Heins (28:16.54)

Several of them have shared like how they've been so grateful for the community because once they're empty nesters, you know, it's easy to lose yourself and your kids and now they have like they have running where they they don't feel alone once their kids leave and I think women who haven't had an identity outside of motherhood.

they've really struggled once their kids have grown. And of course you're always a mom, but obviously it's very different when they're not living in the house anymore. And so I think it is just so important that we are multifaceted people. We are not just moms. It's okay to need your cup to be filled by something else other than wiping butts and making a thousand breakfasts. Obviously we love being a mom.

Tricia (28:55.07)

Thank

Olivia Garcia (28:56.802)

Yes, yeah.

Shanna Birchett (28:58.995)

Amen.

Tricia (29:00.118)

Yeah.

Olivia Garcia (29:00.45)

Hahaha!

Whitney Heins (29:02.07)

Like first and foremost, it's, like you asked me like, what do I want to like accomplish and be good at? And I'm like, I want to be the best mom for Katelyn Eleanor. Like that is like the most important thing, but it's like, yeah. And I also want to do all these other things and have all, you know, like, yeah, no, for you, yes. You know, but, and it's like, that's okay. Like we are not singular beings. Like we have.

Shanna Birchett (29:12.927)

Yeah.

Shanna Birchett (29:19.287)

OTQ. We're not talking about that.

Whitney Heins (29:31.532)

needs and we have like once and like different passions other than you know the domestic engineering duties.

Olivia Garcia (29:42.648)

It's so true. I think a lot of it also...

Shanna Birchett (29:47.263)

Yes.

Olivia Garcia (29:48.894)

because I will say I did not have any mom guilt at all during my last training cycle. My training cycle for grandmas, it went pretty smoothly. I did have to adjust every once in a while. I remember I left a run one time with Shanna. We were doing a midweek long run or something. My husband called twice and was like, Charlotte's throwing up. I was like, I should probably head home. He did not need me at home, but somehow I felt compelled to just go just in case, which is so silly because

Whitney Heins (30:10.636)

Peace.

Whitney Heins (30:16.172)

Right.

Olivia Garcia (30:18.648)

could have finished. Anyways, I'd never felt guilty, but I was also self-coached. With this, I got a coach two months ago, three months ago. I have a new level of, I don't even know if it's guilt, but I feel like a pressure to perform or something. It's so interesting that that was the thing that changed. It's like, I don't know why.

Shanna Birchett (30:38.487)

Mm-hmm.

Olivia Garcia (30:46.878)

Necessarily because it's not like I'm taking all of my family's finances and dumping it into running like, you know I picked a race that's not that far away. It won't be that expensive to fly to and But I think the financial impact you're like you're all of a sudden like who I'm buying shoes I'm signing up for races and it's like you kind of just feel a little like it just a little icky about it and it's so silly because you know like in Like what if in my relationship like he has hobbies as well

Whitney Heins (31:04.866)

Yeah.

Olivia Garcia (31:16.76)

And I don't think he feels that same guilt because it's never been really voiced to me. Like, you know, we'll have a New Balance package show up at the door and I'm like, look at that. You ordered new shoes. like, that's it. That was the end of it. Like, yeah, I saw this color. I really liked, I needed new ones where for me, I'm like, hey, I'm going to need new shoes by November 28th. You know, like, because that's like a few weeks out, 10 days out from the race, you know. And it's so weird that I feel like this need to prepare.

everybody for when I need new shoes. But, and so that could just be something like personal to my family, but it was just this interesting shift that happened when I got a coach and it was like, all of a sudden I felt like I was just getting in more serious, you know, so.

Whitney Heins (32:00.268)

I think it's like, it all ties back to feeling like, like you're worth it and you deserve it. like Shanna and I like a while back had an Instagram conversation where I forget what we were talking about, but you said something where you're like, don't be afraid to take up space. And I was like,

Shanna Birchett (32:07.497)

Yes.

Olivia Garcia (32:08.824)

Yeah.

Shanna Birchett (32:19.446)

Yes.

Whitney Heins (32:19.992)

You're totally right. We don't want to run to impact other people and we don't want it to impact the finances. it's like, we're just so afraid of having needs or impacting other people and ask, yeah. But it's okay. We can't just be helping other people all the time. I don't know. Yeah.

Shanna Birchett (32:42.049)

Yeah. Yeah!

Tricia (32:42.06)

Right? Just a recipe for burnout.

Whitney Heins (32:47.222)

And I think with the mom guilt, reframing things is helpful. Like if you reframe it in a way that it is helping other people, if I, you know, if I feel like I'm training really well or I'm set up for success for this marathon because I got these new alpha flies or whatever it is, so expensive though, but you know, I think worth it. You know, like think about like,

Shanna Birchett (32:47.328)

Yeah.

Olivia Garcia (33:08.664)

Yeah.

Tricia (33:08.692)

Thank you.

Shanna Birchett (33:08.821)

They are so spooky.

Whitney Heins (33:13.464)

how that's gonna make you feel and again, like the ripple effect into your family or like I'm taking two hours to go do my long run, but the kids and my husband get to go have like this special time together or whatever. it's like my kids now, they all go to Ace. Like my husband makes them breakfast and they go to Ace. Like I don't know, Ace is the place to go on a Sunday morning. But like, you know, and it's like, so they have this.

Shanna Birchett (33:36.225)

That's so funny.

Tricia (33:37.05)

no. Like the hardware store. It's the hardware store? At first I was like, it must be a gym.

Olivia Garcia (33:39.551)

Any time on the hardware store?

Whitney Heins (33:41.558)

Yeah, but it's like, don't know what, don't know if it's just, I don't know if it's just the hardest at the ACE in Knoxville, but it's got like super cute like gifts and it's got good food and like, so it's like, this is like, this route, right, you guys need to come to Knoxville. ACE is the place, I tell you. Yeah, it's not just to get like nails and a hammer or whatever, but it's like they have this cute little routine that happens when I'm running, you know, and it's like you,

Shanna Birchett (33:41.92)

you

Olivia Garcia (33:44.056)

fun!

Tricia (33:52.29)

What?

Shanna Birchett (33:53.007)

What? I'd be going to Ace! Post log run.

Tricia (33:56.021)

I know.

Olivia Garcia (33:56.056)

I'd be going next too.

Shanna Birchett (34:03.8)

Wow!

Tricia (34:04.556)

That sounds terrible.

Olivia Garcia (34:04.694)

That's awesome.

Olivia Garcia (34:11.041)

I love that.

Whitney Heins (34:11.232)

you're creating space for stuff like that to happen. Otherwise, if you were there all the time, it wouldn't. So, I don't know.

Olivia Garcia (34:14.485)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Shanna Birchett (34:18.231)

I heard this quote the other day too. It was like somebody comparing it to a car. They're like, you'll take your car and you'll do all the maintenance. You'll do the oil changes. You'll change your tires. You'll rotate them. You'll clean it. You'll vacuum it. You'll do all this stuff for your car, but yet you won't do it for your own body. Like your one and only body. You won't give yourself time for your one and only body. And that like hit me so hard. Cause I think as mothers, we are always pouring into other people. Like,

Olivia Garcia (34:45.48)

Mm-hmm

Shanna Birchett (34:46.389)

That is our, I feel like it's ingrained in every single one of us, like is to care for other people. But yet when it comes to ourselves, like sleep, like saying, Hey hun, I am sorry. I am so tired. I cannot do a movie tonight. I'm going to bed. or you know, whatever it be feeling right, like making sure that you're eating, you're eating something wholesome for your body. or like we talked about going for a run, like it goes back to that, like,

Whitney Heins (34:54.936)

There we go.

Shanna Birchett (35:14.301)

us feeling like we are not, like we don't deserve time for ourselves. We don't deserve space. that self-respect, yeah, that self-respect is so important as moms, like to give yourself the self-respect that you deserve that too, you know? We're not meant to just be a little old rags thrown around like.

Olivia Garcia (35:20.404)

.

Whitney Heins (35:21.878)

or fancy shoes.

Olivia Garcia (35:25.025)

Exactly. True.

Tricia (35:36.982)

Yes.

Shanna Birchett (35:37.227)

We have purposes here on this earth too. Like, I don't know. just, I've really just, I feel like I, my mom, she's so great and she's so incredible, but she was one of those moms that poured herself into her kids. Like I look back at all that she's done and I mean, she had a paper route that we would go and run and she would be sleep deprived and a solo parent and still do the run arounds with the schools and everything. And you know, and I just look at where she's at now and she, she kind of, feel like she's trying to figure out.

Olivia Garcia (35:53.076)

Okay.

Shanna Birchett (36:05.889)

who she is, you know? And as a mom, I realized like, I want my kids to see themselves in motherhood too. Like I want them to walk away knowing that their kids were their world, but it wasn't their only world, you know? That it was part of their world. And yeah, I just, feel like as moms, like we really need to start believing that like our kids don't need to be our only thing in life, you know?

Whitney Heins (36:21.282)

Nah.

Olivia Garcia (36:31.768)

That's so true. Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney Heins (36:32.664)

It's a lot of pressure on them too.

Tricia (36:34.57)

Yeah, that is, it's like so important to try to break that cycle of like, yeah, think about how awful that is. It's like your kids look to you and you're like, I can't do anything because I'm taking care of you. Yeah, it's like, so much weight on them really.

Shanna Birchett (36:34.719)

Yeah, yeah, totally.

Yes.

Shanna Birchett (36:44.289)

They get pressure, yeah. Yes. That's such a good point, Whitney.

Whitney Heins (36:48.556)

Yeah.

Whitney Heins (36:52.234)

it's a generational unraveling. It's like each generation of moms is like starting to move away from that, that they're not, yeah.

Tricia (36:54.593)

Great.

Shanna Birchett (36:54.665)

Yes.

Tricia (36:59.626)

Yeah, is. And Shannon, so I'm the oldest of seven. And so, my mom, my dad, yes, cause you're at the bottom of the chain. Yeah. yeah. Well, I was changing diapers when I was six and my dad also traveled a ton. So I saw the same with my mom. mean, she even did daycare in the house for a couple extra kids because seven wasn't enough, I guess. So yeah, it's interesting to have grown up in that.

Olivia Garcia (37:00.807)

Yeah.

Shanna Birchett (37:03.597)

that's so cool. You have a different perspective. You're the second mom.

Whitney Heins (37:03.608)

Whitney Heins (37:10.794)

Yes. my gosh.

Olivia Garcia (37:14.03)

my goodness. Mm-hmm.

Shanna Birchett (37:16.673)

That's so crazy.

Whitney Heins (37:18.466)

you

Tricia (37:28.798)

environment and have seen that like just from our own moms who are juggling so so much. think yeah we learn a lot from being in big family.

Shanna Birchett (37:35.158)

Yeah.

Whitney Heins (37:39.01)

And it's like, and just to like bring it back, it's like you learned a lot from watching your moms and kind of like, you know, I like that, but I also don't want that for myself. And like, that's what our kids are doing. You know, they're watching us, they're watching us go after our goals and taking care of ourselves and being healthy and being able to like, you know, go down the big water slide and play on the monkey bar, you know, like they're watching us.

Olivia Garcia (37:39.096)

Nice.

Shanna Birchett (37:39.319)

That's not true.

Olivia Garcia (37:42.808)

Yeah.

Shanna Birchett (37:52.671)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tricia (37:54.753)

Great.

Whitney Heins (38:08.908)

be able to do that and it's like.

Olivia Garcia (38:10.525)

Yeah, they do. watch everything that we do. Everything. You know, good or bad.

Whitney Heins (38:15.488)

And yeah, and they're gonna take some of it and so, and you know, they may be like, why would anybody ever want to train for a marathon or an ultra? Like, I don't get it.

Shanna Birchett (38:21.111)

Yeah.

Tricia (38:22.306)

Yes. My mom came back and has scrapes on her legs and...

Shanna Birchett (38:30.025)

So awkward.

Olivia Garcia (38:30.578)

Yeah! Yeah!

Whitney Heins (38:32.696)

Well, awesome. This was such a fun conversation. Thank you so much, guys, for being open and honest. And I am so excited about what we're going to talk about next because I think the opportunities for conversations are endless.

Tricia (38:35.234)

This was good.

Shanna Birchett (38:50.57)

I agree.

Olivia Garcia (38:50.594)

that too. Thank you guys. I just want to quickly end it on a positive note though, because I think we can talk about mom guilt a lot, but I think if you just constantly remind yourself of that, it's that cliche saying of you can't pour from an empty cup. I can't tell you how many times I tell myself that just during the week for anything. If anybody can take that away and just continuously remind yourself that.

You are important too. You cannot pour from an empty cup. And we have all proved it time and time again. And so just a quick reminder, it's such a short little sentence and it's a great mantra to just run through your head throughout the day. Doesn't even have to be on a run, you know?

Shanna Birchett (39:38.113)

Yeah, I love that.

Whitney Heins (39:38.476)

Yeah, I totally agree. I remind myself of that too.

Olivia Garcia (39:39.147)

Yeah.

Tricia (39:41.75)

Yeah.

Olivia Garcia (39:41.994)

Yeah, just a little positive affirmation. love it.

Whitney Heins (39:45.176)

You can put it on your phone as like a reminder too if you need to. All right, well thank you ladies. I hope you have a good rest of the day.

Shanna Birchett (39:46.162)

Hahaha

Olivia Garcia (39:50.398)

Yes, yeah, that's so true.

Tricia (39:55.426)

Thank you.